In 2015 public figures, especially politicians, don’t attack gays. They don’t diss the disabled and they don’t have a go at ethnic minorities. Quite right too.
But some people, it seems, are fair game. On Thursday night, on BBC1’s Question Time, the shadow Education Secretary, Tristram Hunt, showed who he’s not afraid to put down: Catholic nuns. Hunt let his PC mask slip when the panel of which he was a member began discussing schooling, and Cristina Odone, journalist and member of the Legatum Institute think tank, challenged the notion that good teachers are those who have been to teacher training college. Instead, she said, her most inspiring teachers had real values.
It’s hard to convey in writing Hunt’s response. You have to hear the tone of voice (which you can, if you look for Question Time via the BBC’s iplayer or watch it here) when he said: “But these were nuns. They were nuns, weren’t they?” Odone’s baffled look following his sneering voice will have been repeated in households across the land where people who, like Odone, had been educated by nuns, were watching.
What’s Hunt’s beef with nuns? Does he have some fatuous idea that because they are nuns they are incapable of teaching, and instead indoctrinate little children with religious propaganda?
The nuns who taught me certainly had a deep faith. They were strict too. Some of them were better role models for service to people than they were teachers. But the best not only imparted strong values but were also passionate about their subjects, helping their pupils to top grades in their A-levels and to places at university. And I am not alone in this experience: Cherie Booth QC, Dame Colette Bowe, chairwoman of the Banking Standards Review Council, Dame Helen Ghosh, director-general of the National Trust, and Caroline Wyatt, the BBC’s religious affairs correspondent, are all products of convent schools.
As was Germaine Greer, who I once remember describing the nuns who taught her as her first role feminist role models, dedicated to women’s education and capacity for leadership.
What probably got Hunt going on Question Time was Odone’s idea that teacher training is not always necessary, but to respond with a personal comment about her own schooling and an attack on nuns was lame, cheap, and unwise.
That a senior Labour politician should attack a group of people dear to so many Catholics’ hearts just weeks away from a general election could cost the party dear. As Mori polls for The Tablet have shown after the elections in 2005 and 2010, Catholic voters usually stay loyal to Labour. Until now, Hunt has gone on the record saying the party supports the continuation of state-funded faith schools, but after his Question Time gaffe, he may well have sown doubts in Catholic voters’ minds.
One of those likely to be unimpressed by Hunt’s sneer is Ed Miliband’s chief of staff, Tim Livesey, whose sister, Jane, heads the order of the Congregation of Jesus. If that order of nuns had educated Hunt in one of their top schools, he would have developed skills he so clearly lacks: good sense, tact, and an appreciation of those dedicated to the lives of others.
Catherine Pepinster is the editor of The Tablet
Above: Cristina Odone responds to Tristram Hunt (second from right)
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User comments (19)
Are there really so many Catholics who cannot recall the large numbers of nuns who were unqualified teachers who populated primary schools in the sixties and seventies to ensure an income stream to the local convent . I can recall this at St Joseph's in Luton where an unqualified Nun and an appalling teacher was made Deputy Head without an interview when the previous Head retired, the entire staff were shocked ,but this was pushed through by the then Parish Priest, who was later convicted a paedophile .Not many of them about in Holy Orders ?
Labour moved away from what would be considered as Catholic values many years ago and many people are still keen to support them without interrogating their policies. I've never voted Green before but actually they are much nearer CST and my own values than any other party. Perhaps it is time for people to revisit their rationale for party support and Mr Hunt's poor understanding of faith schools might provide the stimulus to do that.
I agree that the programme advocated by Tristram is "manifest vacuousness" (were you taught by nuns? I prefer bloody stupid!). I know many teachers who are feeling utterly betrayed by the Labour Party. However, let us admit that his comments concerning nuns have helped highlight the moron we may be electing as the next Education Secretary!
The decision by The Tablet to concentrate on this off-the-cuff, many might say trivial, sleight against "nuns" by Tristram, whilst ignoring only a few months before the coming General Election the manifest vacuousness of his principle-free educational programme for "New" Labour over the next 5 years in England (though perhaps not throughout the UK) speaks volumes.
Sneer or not, it was Mr Hunt who went on the offensive, seeking to negate Christine Odone's argument by associating it with 'nuns' and 'religious schooling'. He then didn't know what you do when you are in a hole. I wouldn't have got away with such sloppy debating in my convent school (1969-76). A common popular view may be that 'nuns were often cruel, capricious and ignorant'. 'Independent-minded feminist' would be nearer to my experience. I can say that on one occasion I was treated in an unkind way by one nun (not a teacher). On the other hand, my primary head teacher (a Sacred Heart nun) and my secondary head teacher (an Ursuline) gave me the confidence and encouragement to break out from a working class Irish London background, eventually to Cambridge University and legal practice. It would not have happened without either of them (or the many other dedicated teachers working in my Catholic schools).
Clifford, I cannot agree with you. I now live in Ireland and had hardly heard of him until I watched BBC Question Time on last Thursday. I held no prejudice against the gentleman until he made his sneering comments against nuns. That is what I heard and observed. We will have to agree to differ on the issue.
In respect of the other comments it is true that many of us, nuns included, were not teacher-trained pre 1973.
Before I left England my school was part of Labour Government inspired SCITT and GTP programmes through a consortium we established and which taught potential teachers in school situations. not very different from how some nuns and lay people trained pre-1973.
Ignorance on the part of a potential Secretary of State for Education is sad.
My email to Tristram Hunt
Dear Mr. Hunt,
You should not make assumption that teacher nuns are/were unqualified. Those at my school, Notre Dame Sheffield which I attended from age of 6 to 19 (1946-1959) were university educated and trained teachers. Senior School became a grammar school immediately they were introduced. They ran teacher education colleges. The Notre Dame order was no unique in having teachers with both degrees and teaching qualifications. I also studied at Heythrop College, University of London, where some of the staff were then and are now nuns – with doctorates. You owe a huge apology and I suggest to write to the Catholic Papers humbly admitting you got it horribly wrong and apologising profusely not just making an excuse such as the one on twitter. Ann Lardeur. B.D., M.Th.
As a religious myself I would agree entirely that there have been woeful departures from the ideal in the living out of our life. To say otherwise is to be self-deluded and to lack respect for those damaged by such departures. However, as someone named above I would also say that, pace Clifford Longley's comment below, I did hear something dismissive and contemptuous in Mr Hunt's tone when he talked about nuns. Of course, we expect, especially now, to be fully qualified for the purpose of teaching, as for any ministry that we undertake. In earlier times that was not always possible, often for reasons beyond anyone's control, but that does not detract from the fact that historically many in Labour's heartlands in the northwest (my own place of origin) and in Scotland - for example, Glasgow - were given an education by members of religious congregations that would undoubtedly have been denied them but for those nuns. Mr Hunt's comments may not have cost Labour any votes but they were certainly far from considered or judicious - I would have expected more from a senior Opposition front bencher.
Tristram Hunt on the Andrew Marr programme Sunday Feb 8th - "I am sure there are brilliant teachers who are nuns who are doing a fantastic job."
So why have so many people decided to take offence, when it was obvious none was intended? Or has the charitable principle of thinking well of people until it is proved to the contrary - which is surely taught in Catholic schools by nuns or whomever - been abandoned when it comes to (a) politicians you don't like, or (b) comments in the internet? 1Corinthians 13:4.
I don't think these comments will cost Labour any votes, partly at least because Catholics in this country have been sheep-like in their loyalty to that party. What people outside of our now very middle class Church remember is that nuns were often cruel, capricious and ignorant. Extraordinary that whilst priests are expected to show constant contrition for abuse nuns seem to become ever more saintly with the passage of time.
Like so many I have so much to be grateful for in terms of the contribution of fantastic nuns to my schooling and education. in Dublin The Irish Sisters of Charity were instrumental in providing me with a great basic education. At London University I was supported by Marist sisters. In Ealing as a young secondary teacher I had the benefit of several Sisters of Jesus and Mary, who supervised my probationary year. in my subsequent education career I always had the advantage of the teaching, wisdom and inspirational support of enthusiastic and inspirational nuns.
The Mercy Sisters of the last two schools that I had the privilege to lead were always available to work with and support the most disadvantaged. Their enthusiasm and extra curricular contributions were always appreciated by students, parents and teacher colleagues.
I found Tristram Hunt's sneering comments very insensitive and offensive and his unwillingness to acknowledge his gaff even more worrying. He clearly has not listened again to how he reacted to Christina Odone. He has not done his Labour colleagues any favours.
It doesn't surprise me. Every time he opens his mouth he loses votes for Labour. The teacher oath suggestion was one of his more ridiculous ideas. He's probably never met a nun.
This is becoming silly. Tristram Hunt suggested that Cristine Odone's teachers were nuns - incidentally, only at the first school she went to, before attending first an Anglican school in the USA and then an independent (non-denominational) boarding school in England- was only repeating what she had already implied. In fact nuns who teach in schools in the US, as in the UK, have to be fully qualified. They take education, including their own, very seriously. If Odone and Hunt both thought this was not the case, their exchange was based on a shared false premise. Even if so, I cannot see how we get from that to the assumption that Hunt thought nuns should not be allowed to teach, or were not good at it. He neither said nor implied anything of the sort. To deduce that merely from the evidence of his tone of voice is unreasonable, and indicates a paranoid determination to be offended. So let's calm down. This was a discussion about Labour policy to block the employment of unqualified teachers in state schools. It has nothing whatsoever to do with nuns.
Yes I can imagine Tristram Hunt is regretting his gaffe now.
I was educated by Sacred Heart Nuns in the 1960s and only realised later what a rounded academic education I had been given. The Order was still enclosed, there was strict discipline and resilience was also developed (useful in later life) but there was encouragement and humour too. The role models we were offered were mostly inspirational. I only recently heard that my old Science Teacher taught herself Russian with a Russian Dictionary and a Dostoevsky novel (in Russian) of course... We were offered a mixture of academic rigour, dedication in forming our spiritual development and life skills, although I didn't appreciate the interminable hockey and netball whatever the weather. If we rebelled later we had something of a firm foundation and confidence from which to explore ideas!. From my recent, frequent encounters with Religious Sisters from several different Orders I find them mostly to be brave women, radical academic powerhouses:nurturing values of love and resilience, not afraid to counter injustice and the oppression of many women around the world. Wonderful role models! .
Thank you Catherine for this comment on a moment that spoke volumes about inner-circle politicians' attitudes towards faith-based education. Religious often make excellent teachers, as proven in many Catholic schools over generations. Inspirational teachers I have encountered in my life were Jesuit and Benedictine priests. Moreover, often people teach in independent schools without having formal teaching qualifications. As a Catholic, as someone who has trained young teachers within a school for their PGCE and NQT status, and yet as someone who went straight from teaching in a university context to a school context without a formal qualification, I find Tristram Hunt's approach to this both ill-informed and ill-judged. The instinct for additional regulation in this area will not necessarily ensure educational quality. Hunt would do well to get to know some nuns or priests and familiarize himself with the good practice of a range of teachers, and thereby expand his social and educational perspective.
I owe immense gratitude to the Marist sisters who provided me with a wonderful education and to the Sisters of the Resurrection who gave our two children the best possible start at their nursery. Tristram Hunt is clueless.
Before we get too misty eyed about this perhaps we should remember those nuns who were neither kind nor thoughtful, but had the capacity to be viciously cruel to those they had power over. Perhaps a little contrition for that would not go amiss.
Colleen McCullough who wrote The Thorn Birds and who recently passed away. She had a hard life as a youngster, she dreaded the threat of punishment which was to take away her books. She also credited the Nuns for bringing out the best in her, and their encouragement in her potential, abilities. The proof is in her success as a writer. As far as I know she was not a practising Catholic.
What a delicious comment! Thank you on behalf of nuns, one of whom was unable to get an 'official' degree at Oxford because she was a woman (in those far off days) but who was one of the most brilliant people I have ever known and who ended up as the Provincial of the Ursulines of the Roman Union. Oh, she was my aunt, and I was a teacher with a B.Ed degree in Maths and French a generation later....