When I point out to Cardinal Blase Cupich that he seems to enjoy stirring things up, he breaks into laughter. “I’m not doing anything to stir things up any more than the Pope is!”

The cardinal turns serious again and he leans forward and looks me in the eye.

“The problem – and it’s a major one – is this. We are not meeting the needs of real people. We can’t be self-satisfied. The most pernicious temptation we have in the Church is to give in to the feeling that ‘we have arrived’. Pope Francis is trying to jar us out of that.”