The new Bishop of Dunkeld says that not to forgive Cardinal Keith O’Brien would be “gravely wrong” but that the retired archbishop needs to make reparation for the harm he has done, writes Brian Morton.
Speaking after his installation at St Andrew’s Cathedral, Dundee, last week, Bishop Stephen Robson acknowledged that “hypocrisy” was the greatest criticism facing the Church in Scotland.
Cardinal O’Brien, who resigned following allegations of sexual misconduct made by priests, had been an outspoken opponent of gay marriage. Bishop Robson worked with Cardinal O’Brien for 35 years.
“Never once in all that time did I experience anything of the behaviour he was accused of. That is why his downfall came as such a shock to me and to so many. The cardinal was much loved in the archdiocese. I was a bishop only a few months when this sad narrative began to unravel. The cardinal admitted behaviour unbecoming in a man of God and I do not believe forgiveness of him is in question.”
On the issue of clerical sexual abuse, Bishop Robson added that he believed the process of forgiveness and reparation would not be quick or easy and that the “horrific trial” would continue for some time.
Asked if he believed the Catholic Church in Scotland had become too easy a target for media attack, Bishop Robson said: “There is a section of the media which is now out to expose our every flaw to the public. And maybe we’ve deserved it,” he said, adding that scandals had always been a feature of the Church.
Here is the full transcript of the Bishop Stephen Robsoninterview:
The new Bishop of Dunkeld was installed last week at St Andrew’s Cathedral in Dundee. Stephen Robson has already served on the Bishops’ Conference in Scotland as auxiliary bishop and vicar general of St Andrews and Edinburgh. A scientist by training, Robson was born in Carlislein 1951 to an Anglican family. He was baptised Catholic in his teens and started training for the priesthood after studying biological sciences at the University of Edinburgh. He prepared for ordination at St Andrew’s College, Drygrange, and completed further study at the Pontifical ScotsCollege in Rome and at the Pontifical Gregorian University, writing his thesis on the letters of St Bernard of Clairvaux. He was ordained deacon in 1978 an the priesthood the following year for the Archdiocese of St Andrews and Edinburgh. He was tutor for a time at Blair’s College and then spent a year at Ampleforth Abbey, contemplating the monastic life. He was appointed auxiliary bishop by Benedict XVI in 2012.
Q There is always a tension, at the time of any new appointment, between an emphasis on change and an emphasis on continuity, with both applying in some measure. In Scotland at the moment, there is, perhaps, an understandable wish to put the stress on change, not least to avoid some of the problems of the past. One perhaps looks to the Church to assert a basic continuity, but from your personal point of view, with regard to both Dunkeld and to Scotland as a whole, do you feel it's a moment for brave new starts or, precisely the opposite, for clinging on to continuities?
A These tensions have always been a part of the Church: change and continuity. In typical Catholic fashion it is not a case of either/or but both/and. The Church is both missionary and therefore needs to expand, inculturate and change. But it also has roots in Christ who is ‘the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. In many ways I think the tension, if it can be resolved at all is summed up with the maxim ‘change in continuity as JH Newman summed it up with his concept of development of doctrine. It was not an original thought, of course, but expressed beautiful in his Essay on the Development of Doctrine. In some ways this would be my starting point. Pope Benedict XVI also beautifully expressed it in his 2005 address to the Roman Curia with the concept of ‘the hermeneutic of renewal in continuity’, often shortened as the ‘hermeneutic of continuity’ and of the concept of ‘organic development’. So we don’t want false dichotomies like conservative/liberal coming back again Rather we Catholics are a people on the move, but with our roots in history soaking up the splendor of the truth. We forget this at our peril! These principles apply to us all from the Holy Father downwards. If we are a community moving through history and being sustained by the Truth we can grow and develop simply by always adapting to the times, but by not losing our shape. We are the Church of Christ, growing organically, responding to new needs but with our feet planted firmly in the soil of the Faith.
There may be radical changes from time to time but if they’re not in continuity with the Great Tradition then they are not genuine developments. However learning to discern the changing from the unchanging, the contingent from the necessary, isn’t as simple as it used to be though!
Q The Bishops' Conference of Scotland has been rather thinly populated - as to numbers, not quality - for some time. Has that made an essential difference to how the Church has been able to function in Scotland?
A The Church in Scotland is in profound transition and, in some ways, is experiencing a time of culture shock. This is why we must turn always to the Christ who is the ‘same yesterday, today and forever’ as our only point of reference. He is the Great Teacher who, through the Spirit, has guided the Church through thick and thin always. So discernment and bold decision making are both necessary. This is difficult with a depleted Conference as so few Bishops have ‘canonical votes’ to settle matters. But this is now quickly changing thanks to the Nuncio and the filling of vacant sees in our country by Pope Francis. We need to remember that our country is one of the earliest evangelized in the Old World. And so we never start in a vacuum but in great continuity with the Spirit who is always at work. Please God, we can face the big issues with a renewed hierarchy working with our priests, religious and people.
Q How has the departure of Cardinal O'Brien affected the Archdiocese and specifically the people of St Andrews and Edinburgh? We’ve sensed a great sorrow in the parishes about what has happened, and not much overt anger.
A I have known Cardinal O’Brien for about 36 years. I was a Deacon when he came to the Seminary and he brought with him a remarkable freshness and sense of vocation and priesthood. As priest and Bishop I served him for 35 years in various apostolates and always found him to be kind and supportive. Never once in all that time did I experience anything of the behavior that he was accused of. That is why his downfall came as such a shock to me and to so many. I would have to say that the Cardinal was much loved in the Archdiocese. That is why the reaction to his misdemeanors has been so devastating. I was a bishop only a few months when all this sad narrative began to unravel. The Cardinal admitted behavior unbecoming a man of God and I do not believe forgiveness of him is at question. In fact, not to forgive him would be gravely wrong. However, the people the Cardinal has damaged – and I still do not know the full story – have been badly affected and the Cardinal needs to realise the devastating effect he has had on them. But just as devastating was the effect his behavior had on all those who trusted him and shared their lives with him over 27 years as a Bishop and priest. This is what is so difficult to heal. Broken limbs and bodies are simpler to cure but mental, psychological and emotional scars are not so easily healed. One needs time to be healed. I think a long time. As Christians we believe wholly that Confession and Communion and the sacraments in general will heal us. But bad memories are slow to heal and our spiritual weakness – which we all suffer from – is such that we need to pray for the grace to be healed and allow it to happen in us. The Lord wants it, but we have to want it too. And that takes time! Many people in the Archdiocese of St Andrews and Edinburgh and beyond are still feeling like this and they need help. Thanks be to God we have the Grace of God to rely on.
Q Do you feel the media (print, television, internet) are over-determining how the general public sees the Catholic Church? Our sense is that non-Catholics now probably 'know' more about the Church now than they did fifteen years ago, but only in the rather negative sense of knowing what BBC Scotland, The Scotsman and others have said about the Church and its problems and not through any form of ecumenical or straightforward social and intellectual contact. Is it time for the Church to take charge of its own 'image' in a more forthright and proactive way?
A I do feel that there is a section of the media which is now out to expose our every flaw to the public. And maybe we’ve deserved it. But scandals have always been a feature of the Church in its public persona and we are still here. I think the sins and scandals of the past were huge compared to many of our scandals today. However, we have never been under so much scrutiny as we are today. I think the truths of the Faith are now so out of kilter with the ‘mores of the world’ that with most aspects of Faith and Morals we stick out like sore thumbs. And maybe it has to be this way, called as we are as a Church, to be counter cultural. Perhaps we need to batten down the hatches for a while to discover again the confidence to ‘give an account of our Faith’, as St Paul would remind us. We also need to realize that our people face many different and more insidious temptations to their faith than in days gone by. As a Church we also need to strengthen our media profile – nationally and internationally - to use all the expertise we can muster to present the Faith in a positive light. The biggest criticism we face today in the light of recent happenings in the Scottish Catholic Church is hypocrisy, and in this we are in a similar position to the Good Lord himself who was constantly being tripped up by the establishment of his own day. Where we are guilty we must put our hands up and acknowledge wrongdoing; where we are being criticized unjustifiably, we must defend ourselves. We must practice what we preach and admit our failures and face them when they happen. And learn from them, most importantly! But there is so much that is good going on not least the wonderful works of charity and practical love that the Church has always been good at.
Q Do you believe that the question of historic abuse can be satisfactorily resolved, forgiven and prevented in future? There are those, hostile to the Church, who are now comfortably able to caricature it and its institutions as mechanisms for abuse. How can that be countered? Renewed emphasis on working with and for the poor, the lonely, the hungry, the disturbed in mind? The election of Pope Francis has already effected a change in wider understanding of how the Church works internationally. Enough?
A The fact of sexual abuse of minors and others has been an horrific trial for us. But more than this – for the abused themselves it has been a nightmare. Abuse ought never to happen, but it has, and we have to face it confront it and to help ensure it does not happen again. We have to fairly and squarely face up to our responsibilities – especially towards the victims – and try to make amends in whatever ways are open to us. We must get this right. We must succeed here. The damage to our reputation and to our credibility has been immense here. The McLellan Commission, of which I am the Member representing the Scottish Hierarchy, is being charged with the revision and assessment of our present safeguarding guidelines. What has to be changed will be changed and the Scottish Bishops have pledged their full cooperation in complying with whatever is to be recommended by this Commission. Our role as Bishops has been completely changed by the presence of this evil in the Church and we must work to recover our credibility and our capacity for moral leadership with conviction.
Q Another strand of the great bundle of change that the Church has had to face in recent time is the forthcoming referendum. The Catholic Church is supra-national, but clearly has to work within the political system of the home country. How does the Church deal with this issue? What in your view is the worst result to expect next year: a Yes vote, a No vote, or a very narrowly split vote?
A This is a difficult one. Scotland is a wonderful country with a great heritage – cultural and historical – of independence. Indeed the Catholic Church hierarchy itself has always been independent from England – sometimes in history even emerging on the wrong political sides! However this question of the Independence Referendum is a purely political one. We do have interests as Christians, of course. We have a passionate interest in seeking the emergence of a more just, more temperate, more compassionate and merciful state working for the good of all our people. As the Church has always done in ‘rendering to Caesar what is Caesar’s’ we shall work with all civil authority to ensure freedom for the Church, freedom for religious faith and conscience and protection for our people – especially the poorest of the poor. But I do not wish to speculate as to how things will work out. But, like Saint Paul, I do believe that the world is God’s world, and that where there is truth and justice, compassion and the Rule of Law sincerely sought by the State then the Spirit of God has room to breath, inspire and to move.
Q More personally, what can the people of Dunkeld expect from you? What do you bring, spiritually, intellectually and in terms of experience of episcopal office? I'd be fascinated to hear something of your early training, what and who influenced you, what changed your priorities and direction. I asked Bishop Gilbert, who I know from Pluscarden and from a couple of BBC things I did, whether he had a list of agenda and he said he distrusted anyone who approached a new job with that kind of set-in-stone manifesto. How do you intend to approach your appointment? Does the wider situation dictate a very proactive approach, particularly given that Dunkeld has been sede vacante for some time, or does it demand that you go slowly, wait and see, follow the political and social weather?
A Temperamentally and spiritually I have always been a see/judge/act sort of person. This means I need time and space to reflect, observe and discern. I learned this from eight years in a Jesuit University and in a Jesuit parish before that; discernment lies at the heart of the Jesuit charism. I do not believe in acting precipitately or hastily, but once I’ve discerned and consulted then I decide and act. It would be folly to rush in where angels fear to tread! Approaching my work prayerfully and in the spirit of the Rule of St Benedict is also part of who I am. This is all part of my givenness.
Regarding my educational background I started life in higher education as a scientist. My first degree in the early seventies was from Edinburgh University where I studied Bacteriology and Virology, though I am now hopelessly out of date. Then in 1984 I followed a post-graduate Masters Degree in Theology (bioethics) inEdinburgh University. I then had the great privilege, while being also the spiritual director of the Pontifical Scots College in Rome, to study with the Jesuits in St Ignatius own University, the Gregorian University (formerly the Collegio Romano) in Rome. This time was wonderful. I have always had a great respect for the sons of St Ignatius and owe a great deal to them. I was able to prepare for a Licence and Doctorate in Theology in Spiritual Theology and also pursue a Licence in Canon Law which has already been most useful as a Bishop in working through many pastoral problems and challenges. Most of my life as a priest has been as a pastor. It is, of course, our Catholic people who really form us as priests, and as Educators in the broadest sense. I passionately believe in the Ministry of Education and as Catholics we are privileged to have a wonderful system of Catholic Education from nursery to University level. Here in Dunkeld we have recently opened a Theological Institute, the St Ninian Institute, for the education and formation of the laity and perhaps much more. Here the Maryvale model is used and courses are taught. Education is, after all, at the heart of the preaching of the Gospel. I hope I can serve the priests, Religious and people of Dunkeld and together with them make a little more headway towards understanding our Faith, living it and progressing a little further on our Pilgrimage to the Kingdom of Heaven.
Q What, for the benefit of readers who don't know the area, are the particular issues/situations that Dunkeld presents. Most non-metropolitan dioceses have, I assume, a mixture of urban and rural landscapes and populations, but the proportions are always different and history presumably plays a part as well as geography.
A Dunkeld is like many of our Scottish Dioceses in that it is a mixture of rural and city areas. Perth is a growth area and is a beautiful city, but the largest City is Dundeewhich is in the middle of a massive regeneration programme. There are signs of new growth everywhere and there is a great buzz about the place, though I need a satnav to get me about as I don’t know the geography of the city at all yet!
As elsewhere, our biggest problem as a city and diocese will be to get the economy right and help build a fair and just society for our people to live in. This, of course, is the same task in all our other Scottish cities. As a Diocese, one of our huge problems is also a shortage of priests. Some of our priests are working under great pressure, many looking after huge communities and multiple parishes with no help and very work-crammed life-styles. I would love to be able to relieve their burdens.Being a priest in 2014 is hard enough without excessive burdens of spiritual and pastoral care. I have to go looking for priests to come to Dunkeld and work for a longer or shorter time to help relieve the pressure. Another great and important work will be faith formation of young and old and the fostering of vocations. In addition Dundee has a huge student population with Dundee University and Abertay University and just ten miles away the great historical University of Saint Andrews which is only ten miles away. These are great challenges to the Church’s pastoral care, but are also a great potential source of good Catholic laywomen, laymen and of course Vocations to the Priesthood and Religious Life. A resurgence in vocations to the priesthood would be a great and wonderful gift from the Good Lord. But training is seven years and many seeds need to be sown but the reaping is not so soon! Hence the desire to search for priests.
Q What of your predecessor? Is there always (even if only unconsciously) a decision whether to follow or to diverge from his example and 'style'?
A My predecessor Bishop Vincent Logan is no stranger to me. I have known Bishop Vincent for about 36 years when he was Episcopal Vicar for Education in the Archdiocese of Saint Andrews and Edinburgh, a post I also subsequently held. Bishop Vincent had great qualities and gifts which he has shared with the People of Dunkeld for the past thirty years. These gifts will be live on. But the Good Lord creates us unique and so my gifts will hopefully complement and augment his and provide both continuity combined with a new direction with new possibilities.
Q What do you like to do in the short hours left to you by your new responsibilities? What do you read, and listen to. Archbishop Cushley suggested some interesting musical choices. What stirs you?
A What are my interests? I love reading and artistic endeavours. Painting and architecture are also of great interest. But my greatest passion is music. The Catholic Church has such a wonderful patrimony of sacred music which I love. We have an excellent Choir in the Diocese here and the music at the Solemn Vespers and Benediction when I took possession of the Diocese, and then at the Installation Mass, were truly wonderful. But I also love Opera – from Mozart to Wagner - and beyond. I have a special love for Italian Opera and most especially Puccini Operas. I don’t get time to go to them physically but they are constantly on in my house when I am home or in the car.
Q Finally, what do you have to say to a young Scottish Catholic from your diocese who has grown up witnessing a great deal of very negative publicity about the Church, whose received view of Catholicism is mixed up with confusions about how sexuality and personal relationships are governed, how wrongdoing is dealt with, who feels, in short, very vulnerable and uncertain as to whether the Church is either refuge or appropriate challenge. How do you reel in a person like that? And how retain a parishioner who has seen (or feels that (s)he does) the Church unraveling in scandal. Is there a 'lost' generation in the Church? Or can it be reconciled and won round?
A I am a great believer in the goodness of our young people. I have worked all my priestly life of 35 years with young people and find them amazingly refreshing. Older people are often afraid of young people. I do not know why! We oldies tend to think that we have to regale them with modernity. But it is not like that. Young people often respond to wisdom and age and experience and they are often searching for an anchor-hold for their faith. Young people are often amazingly conservative. Often they demonstrate characteristics of a bygone age, especially from the Church of the past. I am not afraid of this. They are seeking stability in a changing world. They look for changeless truth in a relativistic world. They look for certainty in Truth and often don’t find it anywhere except in the church. I also think young people don’t have many of the hang-ups that older people have. They take the challenges the world throws up before them in their stride. They are often more discerning than their elders. I think we ought to trust young people more and help them realize that the future of the Church is theirs and that they have a precious treasure to receive and to hand on in its integrity. I also think that young people are less shockable than their elders and thus are less prone to being scandalized. If forgiveness and reconciliation are not at the heart of the Church then we might as well pack up. Also, we Catholics don’t want to condemn people. We ought never to condemn people. Aware of our own sin we ought to be able to recognize and accept weakness in others – but also to help them follow a life of deeper holiness. We always distinguish between the sinner and the sin. We keep the ideal but we realize that in our fallen condition we fail. We know as Catholics that for God the door is always open, never closed to us. So how could we ever close the door on other people? Compassion is something young people are especially good at. When I taught in junior seminary I was astounded at how powerful the prayer life of some of the youngest boys in our College could be. Young people can often shame us in their pursuit of holiness. How can we ever be afraid of them?
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